This came in by way of Dale Drinnon.
It is a good review of known artifacts describing what are pretty
clearly dinosaur like creatures. It is
perhaps timely to make a comment.
1
Modern day or
recently extinct if you like, members of the dinosaur family largely reside in
tropical and subtropical wetlands and perhaps forests and jungles generally
avoided by mankind for day to day living.
2
Convincing
artifacts have appeared globally but best so far in the Americas. Actual eyeball reports are rare and so far
unconvincing because they are typically unique.
The closest we have to superior reporting comes from the Congo. This is just not hospitable habitat for human
penetration without a proper hazsuit and cooling and particularly at night.
3
Theropods in
particular like water and will there be simply mistaken for a crocodile. The
others are vegetarian and will hunker down and browse in dense vegetation
becoming very difficult to spot unless luck intervenes.
4
They do not
travel far and likely prefer to be close to water for body cooling. They may well browse mostly at night to avoid
overheating.
We should still have seen them more easily than is obviously apparent
which pretty well demands that they reside in natural refugia at the present
never penetrated by humanity. Since we
now have generally abandoned significant hunting, this becomes even easier.
As well, any hunter will never have the weapon to hand to take on one of
these huge creatures unless they are elephant hunting. Thus we get only unbelieved local reports and
few of those now and a rare one off tale.
No Your Dinosaurs! Who Knows for Certain What
Dinosaurs Actually Looked Like? Nobody!
Except Perhaps the Eyewitnesses Responsible for the Ancient Dinosaur Art at the Peabody.
Posted by Chris Parker
Oct192013
Isaiah 35:7
“And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water; in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.”
“No Your Dinosaurs! Who Knows for Certain What Dinosaurs Actually Looked Like? Nobody! Except Perhaps the Eyewitnesses Responsible for the Ancient Dinosaur Art at the Peabody”. by Chris Parker, s8int.com
Prologue
In the movie; “The Princess Bride” an important character,
Inigo has a conversation with the man in black during a sword fight and that
conversation has become a trope in television and movies (convention or device
used in creative works). The conversation goes something like this:
Inigo:
“I admit it: you are better than I am!”
Man in Black: “Then why are you smiling?”
Inigo: “Because I know something you don’t know.”
Man in Black: “And what is that?”
Inigo: “I AM NOT LEFT HANDED” [Switches the sword to his right hand and starts driving him back]
Man in Black: “Then why are you smiling?”
Inigo: “Because I know something you don’t know.”
Man in Black: “And what is that?”
Inigo: “I AM NOT LEFT HANDED” [Switches the sword to his right hand and starts driving him back]
I sometimes have the feeling that I am in Inigo’s
position when I find myself in a conversation with someone about man and
dinosaurs living at the same time.
“You believe that man and dinosaurs lived together
at the same time within the last 10,000 years they’ll say incredulously”? Or
perhaps they’ll say it sneeringly, or contemptuously or in some rare cases even
sadly or compassionately.
They are quite certain that they have the upper
hand, the science, the good sense, the pure knowledge the unmitigated certainty.
They slap their foreheads. They roll their eyes. All that. They believe that
they are winning this “fight”-discussion-debate because-come on! They may even
be fellow believers.
They’re thinking that I have set science aside for
some kind of blind faith belief in what science has said is impossible-for the
sake of the Bible. They’re thinking I’m living in some anti-science
anti-evidence bubble. However, as a Christian I have choices. I could believe
as some Christian’s do that God created through evolution and that man and
dinosaur did miss each other by millions of years.
I could believe that the dinosaurs were wiped out in
the flood and thus man and dinosaur barely met. I could believe as some
Christians do that God sent unbelievers a strong delusion because of their
unbelief (Romans 1) and simply put the bones of animals that never existed in
the ground in order to further delude them.
I could simply choose not to speak when this topic
is raised thinking that as a Christian it is outside of my pay grade, that the
answers are unknowable. I could choose to be cowed by the sheer numbers of
people who unblinkingly accept the current paradigm.
But I know something they don’t know. I took a fact
based approach. I went where the evidence took me and in this internet age the
truth can be found. Many non-Christians don’t know that faith is supposed to be
built- not on nothing as they assume—but on evidence. “Now faith is the
substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Heb 1:1
I have spent a lot of time sifting through the
evidence in ancient history, the work of ancient “biologists” the articles in
old newspapers and recently the evidence in world famous archaeological
museums. The evidence is clear. The evidence is persuasive.
The evidence proves that dinosaurs and man lived
together all over the world in the last few thousand years. Now, the Bible is a
“type” of sword and in this dinosaur and man conversation we’re having they are
the ones who don’t have the facts or the truth. There is a reason why I am
smiling:– I AM NOT LEFT HANDED!
Peabody Museum Zoomorphic Stone Heads
Historians say that dragons appear in the history and art of virtually every ancient culture (as do stories of a great flood). Here’s an interesting fact along those lines; no matter what culture a piece of ancient art comes from everyone can instantly recognize a dragon. Isn’t that interesting? Here we have a supposedly completely mythological creature, a product of the imagination of man and culture and yet they agree across geography and time in the salient characteristics of their portrayals with the added peculiarity that everyone knows that they are dragons?
No modern artist who works for a science journal or
a museum or is otherwise engaged in depicting dinosaurs from a few bones is
going to draw a dragon-like creature. So, although dragons are reptilian,
frightening sometimes preternaturally large creatures—and so are dinosaurs they
don’t often look much alike when you get down to the details. But here’s the
rub when it comes to that; no one living actually knows what dinosaurs looked
like.
In prior articles on this topic we’ve often quoted
Discover Magazine on this point;
There’s a running joke among professional dinosaur
artists that goes like this: Given just
an elephant skeleton, they’d probably render a titanic hamster. Does anyone
know what dinosaurs really looked like? Sure we do. We see them everywhere, not
just in the museums, but in magazines, movies, even in value meals at
McDonald’s. But all of these lifelike renderings are mostly artistic
interpretations based on very sparse scientific evidence. Discover Magazine,
What Did Dinosaurs Really Look Like? By William Speed Weed, Christopher
Griffith|Friday, September 01, 2000 http://discovermagazine.com/2000/sep/featdino
Of course, Discover Magazine isn’t the only source
that admits that science is just guessing when it puts forth a drawing or
illustration of a dinosaur—particularly when many dinosaurs are only known from
a few bones.
A new book entitled “All Yesterdays: Unique and
Speculative Views of Dinosaurs and Other Prehistoric Animals” by paleo
artists C.M Koseman and John Conway is a review of dinosaur depictions and
misconceptions in science art and a speculation about potential alternate
depictions. They are basically letting the reader in on their secret that the
work they do is simply informed speculation.
###
In the photo on the right they freely speculate on how a dinosaur paleontologist might have interpreted the bones (absent muscle and soft parts) of the cow and the housecat (bottom).
This interpretation problem makes it tougher on
“crypto-zoo-archaeologists” like me. My hypothesis that man and dinosaur lived
during the same age and that the ancient peoples would have left evidence in
the form of their art, history and artifacts is complicated by the fact that
the work of paleo artists today might not match up with the work of the actual
eyewitnesses living in the past.
Thus, for instance a dinosaur in an archaeological
museum like Harvard’s Peabody Museum might be perfectly depicted by the ancient
artist but not match up with current thinking on how that dinosaur looked and
go unrecognized; categorized as zoomorphic, unknown, animal, mythological
creature or simply reptile. (Actually my experience is that any depiction
recognizable as a dinosaur or one which is deemed too close does not end up in
the front room of the museum in any case).
For example, in eyewitness viewings of what I
believe are living pterosaurs over the last few years some have described the
creature the saw as “almost prehistoric looking”, which could mean that they
saw a living creature that did not completely comport with modern illustrations
of the creature.
Moche Culture Vase in the Form of…?
In the last few weeks I set out to prove my hypothesis at the Harvard Peabody, online archaeological museum site as well as at other online collection sites. The Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University “is steward to one of the oldest and largest collections of cultural objects in the Western Hemisphere”. Other online collections visited include, the Penn Museum, the Met and several Museums of Central and South America.
Could it be shown that creatures that are
recognizable as dinosaurs and Not dragons-in the mythological sense are somehow
going unnoticed in their online collections? Can we show how specific types of
dinosaurs might have been erroneously depicted? In that case, the depiction
would have to be close enough for an identification to be made.
In this article and shall we say “collection” I
intend to show once again through the arts of ancient peoples that man and
dinosaur lived together within the last 5,000 years—but only to the fair and
open minded.
The Eyewitness to Recent, Ancient History Dinosaur Collection, Part 1
1)Chasmosaurus at the Museo Larco, Peru
Actually it is not a piece from the Peabody that I wish to start with. It is a piece from the Museo Larco that illustrates the points we have been making about identification and misidentification most clearly. (See complete vessel at top of this article).
The Larco Museum (Spanish: Museo Arqueológico Rafael
Larco Herrera) is a privately owned museum of pre-Columbian art, located in the
Pueblo Libre District of Lima, Peru. The museum is housed in an 18th-century
vice-royal building built over a 7th-century pre-Columbian pyramid.
The Inca civilization spanned the period of 1438 to
1533 in pre-Columbian South America. That would make this piece between 500 to
600 years old.
###
Inca Pot
Water Carrier Lima
Museo Larco, Peru
I believe
that the animal atop this Inca water carrier (and atop this article) is a
ceratopsian dinosaur of a type similar to Chasmosaurus particularly given the
placement of its horn and the shape of its frill. Ceratopsians might have
broken down neatly into the categories now suggested by science or they could
have been as widely divergent as dogs are today. They may have been sexually
dimorphic and animals identified as belonging to another species may have only
been sexually dimorphic or juvenile versions of other science-identified
species.
“Chasmosaurus (/?kæzm??s?r?s/ KAZ-mo-SAWR-?s) is a
genus of ceratopsid dinosaur from the Upper Cretaceous Period of North America.
Its name means ‘opening lizard’, referring to the large openings (fenestrae) in
its frill (Greek chasma meaning ‘opening’ or ‘hollow’ or ‘gulf’ and sauros
meaning ‘lizard’). With a length of 4–5 metres (13–16 ft) and a weight of 2
tonnes (2.2 short tons), Chasmosaurus was a ceratopsian of average size. Like
all ceratopsians, it was purely herbivorous. It was initially to be called
Protorosaurus, but this name had been previously published for another animal.
All specimens of Chasmosaurus were collected from
the Dinosaur Park Formation of the Dinosaur Provincial Park of Alberta, Canada. C. russelli comes from the lower beds of the
formation while C. belli comes from middle and upper beds. “…Wikipedia
Let me explain what I believe that you’re looking at. It is a ceratopsian dinosaur similar to the Chasmosaurus. It is 500 years old. The right horn has broken off and is probably what is seen on the animal’s right side from the reader’s perspective.
The heavy ceratopsian tail curls up at the back and
the animal fits in terms of body shape and tail for a ceratopsian. The animal
has a crest and you should be able to see that the complete head, ending behind
the horns includes a solid neck frill ending in a ‘V” shape similar to that of
the chasmosaurus. In the photo on
the left I have thoughtfully replaced the animals missing horn. The artist took
pains to make sure that the ceratopsian toes were outlined for the viewer as
well.
I believe what we have here is a depiction of a
ceratopsian dinosaur that differs slightly from what one expects given modern
depictions. The beak is slightly less pronounced-but evident. The horns are
actually in the exact place on its head as the horns on modern Chasmosaurus
depictions. The creature has growths (possibly pre-horn?) growths on the front
of its face that are not seen on ceratopsian depictions.
This is clearly a depiction of a ceratopsian
dinosaur by an actual eyewitness some 500 years ago in pre Columbian South
America. It should be noted that all the ceratopsia were supposed to have gone
extinct 65 million years ago.
2) Peabody
Museum ”6,000 to 7,000 Year Old” Ceramic Bottle with Bi-Pedal Dinosaur
(Iguanodon?) from South America
“Peabody
Number: 90-27-30/54866
Display Title: Black ware stirrup spouted vase
Descriptions:
Inventory Description: Ceramic bottle, stirrup spout, chipped rim, animal effigy, molded body, lying on its side.
Classification:
Stirrup spout
Department: Archaeological
Geography/Provenience:
South America/Peru
Materials: Ceramic
Display Title: Black ware stirrup spouted vase
Descriptions:
Inventory Description: Ceramic bottle, stirrup spout, chipped rim, animal effigy, molded body, lying on its side.
Classification:
Stirrup spout
Department: Archaeological
Geography/Provenience:
South America/Peru
Materials: Ceramic
The earliest ceramics known from the Americas have
been found in the lower Amazon Basin. Ceramics from the Caverna de Pedra
Pintada, near Santarém, Brazil, have been dated to 7,500 to 5,000 years ago.
Ceramics from Taperinha, also near Santarém, have been dated to 7,000 to 6,000
years ago.” Peabody Museum
This appears to me quite clearly to represent some
type of bi-pedal theropod dinosaur. Here we show the artifact on its side so
that the identification of this dinosaur is more easily made.
The trio below is shown with two versions of the dinosaur iguanodon, a bi-pedal dinosaur which has been found in North America.
The trio below is shown with two versions of the dinosaur iguanodon, a bi-pedal dinosaur which has been found in North America.
Distinctive features of iguanodon include large
thumb spikes, which were possibly used for defence against predators, combined
with long prehensile fifth fingers able
to forage for food…Wikipedia.
Unfortunately that part of the sculpture has been
worn away-like noses in Egyptian artifacts. Part of the tail has apparently
broken off as well. I believe that this piece represents a bi pedal theropod
dinosaur like iguanodon or a relative.
3)Nayarit Chinesco “Embryonic Dog” May Be Baby
Sauropod
Nayarit is a state in western Mexico. The Nayarit culture from which this artifact comes is from the period 300 B.C. to 400 A.D.—or even older. This piece is said to represent an embryonic dog. Another identification would seem to be in order for this piece.
For one thing, dogs do not have necks this long. Here I’ve shown it in comparison to an animal that really did have such a long neck; the sauropod dinosaur.
Nayarit
Chinesco Pottery Painted Embryonic Dog
Online Collections Auction
Auction date November 2012
Online Collections Auction
Auction date November 2012
Pre-Columbian,
West Mexico, Ca. 300 BC to 200 AD.
Buff pottery, unique representation, elastic form.
Surface has traces of original polychrome color.
Provenance: Ex-Dr. R. Boyd Stifler, Vanderwagen NM.
Rare specimen Authenticity Guaranteed
Condition:Some wear to surface and with nice dendrite
deposits.”..Online Collections
Buff pottery, unique representation, elastic form.
Surface has traces of original polychrome color.
Provenance: Ex-Dr. R. Boyd Stifler, Vanderwagen NM.
Rare specimen Authenticity Guaranteed
Condition:Some wear to surface and with nice dendrite
deposits.”..Online Collections
Recently a sauropod embryo was found and the
sauropod embryo depicted comes from the “Tiniest Giants: Discovering Dinosaur
Eggs”.
Sauropods are supposed to have gone extinct 65
million years ago.
4) Ancient
Pueblo Culture (1200 B.C.-1500 A.D.) Native Americans of What is Now Arizona
Craft Dinosaur Named Aetosaur; Most of Whose Fossils Have Been Found in Arizona
Aetosaur Skeleton Top and Ancient Pueblo Artifact below.
“The Pueblo people are Native American people in the Southwestern United States comprising several different language groups and two major cultural divisions, one organized by matrilineal kinship systems and the other having a patrilineal system.
These determine the clan membership of children, and
lines of inheritance and descent. Their traditional economy is based on
agriculture and trade. At the time of Spanish encounter in the 16th century,
they were living in villages that the Spanish called pueblos, meaning
“towns””…Wikipedia
This piece comes from a 1936 expedition to the Hopi
reservation and was determined to be from one of the Pueblo Native American
cultures. It is described by the Peabody Museum as “zoomorphic”. Looking at a
list of dinosaur fossils found in Arizona one can quickly see that there is a
similarity between the archaeological piece and –the aetosaur. (Angle
of aetosaur skeleton head adjusted for comparison purposes.)
“Aetosaurs order name Aetosauria from Greek, ?????
(aetos, “eagle”) and ?????? (sauros, “lizard”)) are an extinct order of heavily
armoured, medium- to large-sized Late Triassic herbivorous archosaurs. They
have small heads, upturned snouts, erect limbs, and a body covered by
plate-like scutes. All aetosaurs belong to the family Stagonolepididae.
Most fossils have been found from Arizona, New
Mexico, and Texas…Wikipedia
.
Here is a sobering fact for those of us who can
accept the fact that the ancient Pueblo people of Arizona actually saw and
depicted an aetosaur which supposedly lived from 200 million years ago becoming
extinct 65 million years or more ago;
“Since their armoured plates are often preserved and are abundant in certain localities, aetosaurs serve as important Late Triassic tetrapod index fossils. Many aetosaurs had wide geographic ranges, but their stratigraphic ranges were relatively short. Therefore, the presence of particular aetosaurs can accurately date a site that they are found in.”
You see the problem? Aetosaurs were roaming around
the North American continent during the span of the Pueblo peoples; 1200 B.C.
to 1500 A.D. and one of their artists memorialized the aetosaur in ceramic.
Peabody
Number: 36-131-10/8060
Display Title: Zooomorphic black on white potsherd–animal form
Inventory Description: Ceramic, zoomorphic figurine, with tail, opened mouth, two feet, black painted design on back and sides
Classification: Figurine
Department: Archaeological
Culture/Period: Pueblo
Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arizona/Navajo County/Hopi Reservation/Antelope Mesa/Awatovi
Intrasite: Test 14
Geo-Locale: Antelope Mesa
Materials: Ceramic Pigment
Provenance: Dr. John Otis Brew (1936)
Provenance: Peabody Museum Expedition (1936)
Display Title: Zooomorphic black on white potsherd–animal form
Inventory Description: Ceramic, zoomorphic figurine, with tail, opened mouth, two feet, black painted design on back and sides
Classification: Figurine
Department: Archaeological
Culture/Period: Pueblo
Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arizona/Navajo County/Hopi Reservation/Antelope Mesa/Awatovi
Intrasite: Test 14
Geo-Locale: Antelope Mesa
Materials: Ceramic Pigment
Provenance: Dr. John Otis Brew (1936)
Provenance: Peabody Museum Expedition (1936)
5) Crested Hadrosaur Depiction by the Ancient Peoples of Costa Rica at the Peabody Museum. (Modern Artists May Need to Put Some Weight on the Bones of these Depictions)
Crested Dinosaurs are fairly easy to recognize. Most
of the crested dinosaurs are from the Lambeosaurinae of the hadrosaur group.
The hadrosaurs were also known as the duck billed dinosaurs.
This depiction forms the legs of an ancient pottery piece. The pot is from Costa Rica, Central America. The crests on the various types of lambosaurines differed in size and shape even among the same species and they likely differed due to age and due to sexual dimorphism.
The hadrosaurs depicted have relatively small, round
crests. Here we compare them to a number of known lambeosaurines including
corythsaurus.
It is interesting that the depictions are clearly of the same animal but that the portraits differ. The ancient depictions are similar to modern ones except for the apparent weight of the creatures and the size of the eyes depicted.
“Archaeologists now know that civilization existed
in Costa Rica for thousands of years before the arrival of Columbus, and
evidence of human occupation in the region dates back 10,000 years. Among
the cultural mysteries left behind by the area’s pre-Columbian inhabitants are
thousands of perfectly spherical granite bolas that have been found near the
west coast.
The sizes of these inimitable relics range from that of a baseball to that of a Volkswagen bus. Ruins of a large, ancient city complete with aqueducts were recently found east of San Jose, and some marvelously sophisticated gold and jade work was being wrought in the southwest as far back as 1,000 years ago. Some archeological sites in the central highlands and Nicoya peninsula have shown evidence of influence from the Mexican Olmec and Nahuatl civilizations.
By the time Columbus arrived, there were four major
indigenous tribes living in Costa Rica. The east coast was the realm of the
Caribs, while the Borucas, Chibchas, and Diquis resided in the southwest.
“..geographia.com
Peabody
Number: 26-44-20/C9956
Display Title: Small pottery vessel
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic complete tripod jar, zoomorphic rattle feet (1 missing)
Classification: Jar
Department: Archaeological
Geography/Provenience:
Central America/Costa Rica
Display Title: Small pottery vessel
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic complete tripod jar, zoomorphic rattle feet (1 missing)
Classification: Jar
Department: Archaeological
Geography/Provenience:
Central America/Costa Rica
6) A
New Look at Dicynodont Therapsids Like Moschop from the Ancient Peoples Living
I Peru, South America
The identity of this animal portrait was unknown apparently and thus it was given the general description “animal effigy” by the Harvard Peabody Museum. Was this animal purely a mythological one seen only in the imaginary eye of the artist—or was it seen with the artist’s actual eyes?
As you will see the depiction of the living
therapsid is actually close enough to modern depictions of these types of
creatures as to be readily identified. In appearance it is close to that of
therapsids such as moschops which we know from fossils found in South Africa.
‘Moschops (Greek for “calf face”) is an extinct
genus of therapsid that lived in the Guadalupian epoch, around 268-260 million
years ago. Therapsids are synapsids which were at one time the dominant land
animals. It was around 2.7 metres (8 ft 10 in) long..
….Moschops was heavily built, and had short,
chisel-like teeth for cropping vegetation. Moschops mostly ate plants, but
sometimes ate meat. The forelegs sprawled outwards, like those of a modern
lizard, but the hind legs were under the body, like those of a mammal.”
Wikipedia
Peabody
Number: 46-77-30/5868
Display Title: Pottery animal figurine
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy
Classification: Whistle
Department: Archaeological
Geography/Provenience:
South America/Peru/La Libertad Region///Sausal
Materials: Ceramic
Display Title: Pottery animal figurine
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy
Classification: Whistle
Department: Archaeological
Geography/Provenience:
South America/Peru/La Libertad Region///Sausal
Materials: Ceramic
Here we show the ancient, ceramic artifact in comparison to moschop and to another dicynodont therapsid. Moschops and therapsids similar to him supposedly went extinct before the dinosaurs even evolved. Clearly of this ancient Peruvian artifact represents one of these creatures something is extremely wrong with the evolutionary time scale.
7) Quapaw’s
“Underwater Panther” from the 1500”s Could In Fact Be an Eyewitness Depiction
of Dinosaur Such As Tenontosaurus
According to Wikipedia the Mississippian culture was a mound building group of indigenous people who lived in the Midwestern, Eastern, and Southeastern United States from approximately 800 A.D. to 1500 A.D. The collectors at Artsmia.org believe it to be a depiction of a mythological creature called an underwater panther. That makes these people seem “mystical” all right.
But what if it is an accurate depiction of an animal
living at the time that we would call a dinosaur-rendered somewhat invisible as
a depiction because modern versions of the creature differ greatly? Here is the
museum description:
“The prominent colored swirls and eye motifs mark
this animal as an Underwater Panther, one of the primary beings in the ancient
Mississippian belief system and that of their descendants. The swirling pattern
on its sides signifies water, while the eye markings allude to the animal’s
unusually keen vision.
Red and white were symbolically significant colors
that represented fundamental oppositions such as peace and war, light and dark
and the on-going struggle between the celestial and subterranean realms.
Underwater Panthers belonged to the subterranean and possessed great
supernatural power. Their significance led Mississippian and subsequent artists
to depict them frequently in many forms and media, including three-dimensional
sculptures like this vessel. “
The toes of this creature appear to be triple
toed-similar to a dinosaur. Its tail is very thick in the way dinosaur tails
are often illustrated by modern paleo artists. I took a look to see what types
of dinosaur fossils were prominent with respect to quadruped dinosaurs in those
parts of the United States.
Here we show the “underwater panther” in comparison to tenontosaurus a genus of medium to large ornnithopod dinosaurs. It should be noted that there were a number of ornnithopod dinosaurs found to have lived in those parts of north America which would have had similar body shapes.
The genus tenontosaurus is known from the late
Aptian to Albian ages of the middle Cretaceous period sediments of western
North America, dating between 115 to 108 million years ago. It was formerly
thought to be a ‘hypsilophodont’, but since Hypsilophodontia is no longer
considered a clade, it is now considered to be a very primitive iguanodont.
The teeth of this portrait do give me pause. The
point is however not that we know the specific type of dinosaur that was
sculpted, but rather that it is more likely that it is a dinosaur being
depicted here rather than an underwater panther (which itself sounds like a
cryptid).
Vessel
Artist Unknown (Quapaw)
(United States, North America), c. 1500
Ceramic, pigment
9 1/8 x 10 3/8 x 5 1/4 in. (23.18 x 26.35 x 13.34 cm)
The William Hood Dunwoody Fund 2004.33
Artist Unknown (Quapaw)
(United States, North America), c. 1500
Ceramic, pigment
9 1/8 x 10 3/8 x 5 1/4 in. (23.18 x 26.35 x 13.34 cm)
The William Hood Dunwoody Fund 2004.33
8)Metropolitan Museum of Asian Art’s Sauropod
Dinosaur from Iran 250 B.C. to 225 A.D.
This artifact is from the Metropolitan Museum of Asian art and is labeled “zoomorphic”. I’m somewhat surprised that they didn’t call it a camel. Clearly however it is a sculpted ceramic in the form of a sauropod dinosaur.
Sauropod
dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago according to science. This piece
was estimated to have been made between 250 B.C. and 225 A.ZD. That period
obviously covers the time of Christ.
Zoomorphic
vessel
250 B.C.E.- 225 C.E.
Parthian period
Ceramic
H: 15.2 W: 28.4 D: 12.1 cm
Northern Iran, Northern Iran S1987.944
250 B.C.E.- 225 C.E.
Parthian period
Ceramic
H: 15.2 W: 28.4 D: 12.1 cm
Northern Iran, Northern Iran S1987.944
9) Ulisse
Aldrovandi’s Detailed Drawing of A Long Tailed Pterosaur; Before They Were
“Discovered” By Science
Ulisse Aldrovandi (also Aldrovandus) was born in
1522 and died in 1605. He is sometimes referred to as the father of natural
history studies. By profession he was a professor of philosophy but eventually
became one of the first professors of the natural sciences at Bologna (no
offense intended).
Ulisse died 250 years before the first pterosaur was discovered by a scientist and he mistakenly thought it was a sea going creature. It was not until the beginning of the 19th century that science realized that pterosaurs were flying creatures.
“The first pterosaur fossil was described by the
Italian naturalist Cosimo Collini in 1784. Collini misinterpreted his specimen
as a seagoing creature that used its long front limbs as paddles.
A few scientists continued to support the aquatic
interpretation even until 1830, when the German zoologist Johann Georg Wagler
suggested that Pterodactylus used its wings as flippers. Georges Cuvier first
suggested that pterosaurs were flying creatures in 1801, and coined the name
“Ptero-dactyle” in 1809 for the specimen recovered in Germany.” …Wikipedia
After his death his book Serpentum, et draconum
historiæ Serpentum,
et Draconum was published. In it, was a drawing supposedly from life
(well it was dead!) of a dragon which comports very well with a long tailed,
crested pterosaur especially given that Aldrovandi was a philosopher and
naturalist –and not an artist.
The interesting thing about Aldrovandi’s pterosaur
is that it has the crest of the pteranodon and the tail of one of the long
tailed rhamphorhynchoid pterosaurs. Although we don’t know this exact pterosaur
from science it closely matches modern day eyewitness descriptions and drawings
of a long tailed pterosaur. (There are long tail crested pterosaurs known to
science but none with the classic bone sticking out the back of its head kind).
Note what might look like another set of small wings
at the legs of Aldrovandi’s dragon. It is shown here in the more modern drawing
between the pteranodon’s legs. That is called the uropatagium; and since it
does not appear on birds it is one indication that Aldrovandi actually saw what
he drew.
“some pterosaur groups had a membrane that stretched
between the legs, possibly connecting to or incorporating the tail, called the
uropatagium; the extent of this membrane isn’t certain, as studies on Sordes
seem to suggest that it simply connected the legs but did not involve the tail
(rendering it a cruropatagium). It is generally agreed though that
non-pterodactyloid pterosaurs had a broader uro/cruropatagium, with
pterodactyloids only having membranes running along the legs; Pteranodon in
particular might have developed/redeveloped an uropatagium, given the structure
of the tail”..Wikipedia
The picture on the right (above) shows Aldrovandi’s
dragon compared to Eskin Kuhn’s drawing (bottom, right) from his eyewitness
sighting in the 1970’s. Kuhn was an artist and a soldier stationed at Guantanmo
Bay, Cuba. His “pteranodon” had both the backwards facing “crest” and the long
tail with tail vain of the rhamphorhynchoid pterosaurs. Top right is a modern
drawing of a pteranodon without the long tail. Aldrovandi has the tail, crest
and bat like wings of a pterosaur.
10) Peabody
Museum Seeks to Make an Ancient Veraguas Culture Dinosaur Evolve Into a Bird
Right Before Our Eyes
The “Bird” effigy ceramic whistle (middle) is from
the ancient Veraguas Culture of Panama. That culture inhabited Panama from
approximately 700 A.D. to 1530 A.D.
“This culture inhabited the central region of what
is now province of Veraguás in Panama. The area extends from the Pacific to the
Caribbean coast and includes a number of islands. The climate here is mainly
humid and tropical, and the landscape includes wooded areas and valleys
suitable for agriculture, as well as high mountains, hilly areas, and coastal
lowlands.” Museo Chileno de Arte Precolombino
The ceramic sculpture with three legs does not have the correct number for either the bird (two) or the crested hadrosaur (four). My take is that given the teeth (which birds do not have) and the thick tail this is not a depiction of a bird but rather of a crested hadrosaur such as corythosaurus.
The single combined front legs represent the two
front legs of the creature and this is not uncommon with pre Columbian art. One
can certainly decide for his or her self.
Peabody
Number: 39-90-20/6461
Display Title: Pottery bird effigy whistle. Light brown, probably faded from red.
Descriptions:
Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy with tripod legs
Classification: Ceramic
Department: Archaeological
Culture/Period: Veraguas
Geography/Provenience: Central America/Panama/Veraguas
Display Title: Pottery bird effigy whistle. Light brown, probably faded from red.
Descriptions:
Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy with tripod legs
Classification: Ceramic
Department: Archaeological
Culture/Period: Veraguas
Geography/Provenience: Central America/Panama/Veraguas
11) Plesiosaur
or Dinosaur? Mythological or Cryptozoological?
Here are a number of ancient artifacts that do beg the question; sea monster or dinosaur. It may not be clear what animal the artist has in mind but I believe that they so clearly mirror what modern day artists see as dinosaurs and marine reptiles that they simply cannot be imaginary creatures.
The ancient artist in each case intended to
represent an actual living creature and they must have expected the beholder to
recognize what the creature was as well. In each of these examples only a
portion of the animal is sculpted making the crypto detective work more
difficult.
In situations like these the museum or the auction
house usually leaves this kind of speculation to the viewer but often uses the
term “zoomorphic” as the description. Often as well they will name a creature
for which if it were truly what the ancient artist intended he/she would have
proven to be a terrible artist. That should drive down prices!
Christie’s auction house described this artifact as
a horse which may seem reasonable at first but no horse would have that long a
neck. Alternative identifications include the plesiosaur or a dinosaur.
Plesiosaurs of course supposedly went extinct around 65 million years ago as
did it is claimed, the dinosaur.
The artifact is thought to have come from the period
of up to 1,000 Years before Christ.
Christie’s
• Overview
• Features
Lot Description
ANCIENT NEAR EASTERN TERRACOTTA ZOOMORPHIC RHYTON
CIRCA LATE 1ST MILLENNIUM B.C.
• Overview
• Features
Lot Description
ANCIENT NEAR EASTERN TERRACOTTA ZOOMORPHIC RHYTON
CIRCA LATE 1ST MILLENNIUM B.C.
One in the form of a seated camel, black glazed,
carrying two jars on either side of its back; another in the form of a horse, a
strap handle joining the rim to the back of the vessel, a perforation at the
top of the head forming the spout, 16 cm. high max.; an Amlash terracotta
steatopygous idol, possibly 2nd Millenium B.C., 20.5 cm. high, mounted
(repaired); and a bull rhyton, not ancient, 15 cm. high (4)
This item is described as a “serpent” effigy bowl;
perhaps a “sea serpent”?
This pottery piece has been categorized as Neeley’s Ferry which are artifacts of one of the ancient group of State of Arkansas cultures. Ancient peoples are thought to have lived in Arkansas between 600 B.C. and 1600 A.D.
The Peabody specifically dated the artifact between
1350 and 1550.
This piece is further described as an earthen bowl,
animal. The animal has a head with teeth giving the appearance of either a sea
creature with long winding tail or perhaps a dinosaur.
Peabody
Number: 80-20-10/21621
Display Title: Neeley’s Ferry serpent effigy bowl head and tail start on body & on short axis
Descriptions:
Inventory Description: Ceramic, complete vessel, bowl, mended, serpent head and tail
Object Description: Earthen bowl, animal. Neeley’s Ferry serpent effigy bowl, head and tail start on body, tail turned on itself, head and tail on short axis.
Classification: Bowl
Department: Archaeological
Date: A.D. 1350 – 1550
Culture/Period: Parkin Phase
Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arkansas/Cross County//Halcomb’s Mounds; Arkansas State Intrasite: Grave, 18 inches deep; 2 feet from river
Display Title: Neeley’s Ferry serpent effigy bowl head and tail start on body & on short axis
Descriptions:
Inventory Description: Ceramic, complete vessel, bowl, mended, serpent head and tail
Object Description: Earthen bowl, animal. Neeley’s Ferry serpent effigy bowl, head and tail start on body, tail turned on itself, head and tail on short axis.
Classification: Bowl
Department: Archaeological
Date: A.D. 1350 – 1550
Culture/Period: Parkin Phase
Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arkansas/Cross County//Halcomb’s Mounds; Arkansas State Intrasite: Grave, 18 inches deep; 2 feet from river
Above shows our “sea monster” at another angle which
provides additional detail concerning the shape of the head and tail. By the
way, seals have fins and flippers not “tails”.
This final piece is also from the Neeley’s Ferry
mounds and is described as a “ceramic effigy vessel of zoomorphic design”.
This artifact was found in a gravesite buried three feet below ground level and has been dated from the period between 1350-1550.
As you can see it is very reminiscent of modern
paleoartist’s depiction of theropod or meat eating dinosaurs. Of course, we
only have the head but is it possible that the artist saw and knew about a then
living version of such a creature?
Or is it more believable that this is an effigy of a
mythological animal which accidently reminds us of modern ideas about how
dinosaurs looked?
Peabody
Number: 80-20-10/21195
Display Title: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomorphic design
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomophic design
Classification: Effigy
Department: Archaeological
Date: A.D. 1350 – 1550
Culture/Period: Parkin Phase
Geography/Provenience:North America/United States/Arkansas/Cross County//Neeley’s Ferry Mounds; Arkansas State # 3CS24
Intrasite: Grave, 3 feet deep Geo-Locale: Saint Francis River, West side of
Materials: Ceramic
Collector: Edwin Curtiss (01/01/1880)
Display Title: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomorphic design
Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomophic design
Classification: Effigy
Department: Archaeological
Date: A.D. 1350 – 1550
Culture/Period: Parkin Phase
Geography/Provenience:North America/United States/Arkansas/Cross County//Neeley’s Ferry Mounds; Arkansas State # 3CS24
Intrasite: Grave, 3 feet deep Geo-Locale: Saint Francis River, West side of
Materials: Ceramic
Collector: Edwin Curtiss (01/01/1880)
Bonus: Nicoya, Pre Columbian Incense Burner Maker
Tops Reptilian Artifact with Feet of a Theropod Dinosaur Which is Quite A Feat
for Someone Who Missed Dinosaurs by 65M Years
Top left is a pre Columbian Censer (Incensario), from the 10th–12th century. There are many examples of this type of pre Columbian censer topped by a dragon/dinosaur. The excellent example at the top left is at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. If you take the time you can see the full body of a quadruped, dinosaur like creature with an extremely ornate crest or horns. This is typical of these artifacts.
No matter how un crocodile like the animal perched
at the top is this type of vessel is known as either alligator or crocodile
ware and elaborate stories have been concocted by archaeologists about the
sacred nature of crocodiles and alligators in the pre Columbian cultures.
Here’s a quote describing the object, top left by the Met.
The flare-footed, spherical bowl of this ceramic
censer is enhanced, in silhouette, by the flamboyance of its chimney. Textured,
appliqué bands encircle and emphasize the tall smoothness of the chimney. On
the perforated cap rests an elaborate crested crocodilian. Smoke from the
incense that was burned in the bowl escaped through the holes of the cap and
from openings in the animal’s body. The rhythmical texture of the appliqué
visually unites it with the surface of the creature’s body where the nubby
portions are taken to represent the scutes of the reptile.
Both textured appliqués and scutes are surfaced in
white. The spiky crest that surrounds the head is customarily found in
incensarios of this period. Crocodilians frequently appear in Costa Rican art,
strongly suggesting the supernatural import of these creatures in ancient
times…The Met
On the Top right is a photo of one of those pre
Columbian artifacts, Nicoya, an incense burner.
what is interesting about the artifact on the top, right is that a close up of the animals feet (bottom left) reveal and striking similarity of its feet as sculpted to that of the theropod dinsoaurs (bottom, right) and unlike those of lizards-or crocodiles.
what is interesting about the artifact on the top, right is that a close up of the animals feet (bottom left) reveal and striking similarity of its feet as sculpted to that of the theropod dinsoaurs (bottom, right) and unlike those of lizards-or crocodiles.
Conclusion: There
are hundreds if not thousands of artifacts in museums around the world
containing representations of extinct creatures that we now called dinosaurs.
The most obvious examples are labeled as fakes and are in provide collections.
Those that are not obvious dinosaurs are labeled
dragons, unknown, zoomorphic, mythological, animal etc. Of course many
artifacts are just those things. The issue is that when a group
(archaeologists) are absolutely convinced that these animals lived millions of
years ago all evidence will be viewed to reflect that belief and those that
don’t will be reinterpreted, labeled or hidden away.
In any case if you should find that even one of the
items in our collection is a dinosaur-or that a dinosaur is the most likely
explanation that one should be enough to make you question the current
scientific history control. But we understand that bucking the system is
difficult to do.
Since I began with a quote from the Princess Bride
it might be appropriate to finish with a modified version of another such
quote:
Big Science: We
face each other as God intended. Sportsmanlike. No tricks, no weapons, skill
against skill alone. (not actually a believer)
Believer: You mean, you’ll put down your rock and I’ll put down my sword, and we’ll try to convince each other like civilized people-with facts and evidence?
Big Science; [brandishing rock (public opinion, science mythology, ridicule] I could just wipe you out now.
Believer: Frankly, I think the odds are slightly in your favor at hand fighting.
Big Science: It’s not my fault being the biggest and the strongest. I don’t even exercise.
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