Prithvi Raj on Great Flood

In Chapter four of his book ’19,000 years of history’, Prithvi Raj tackles the Great catastrophe or as we call it, the great flood. Again he is informed by the mass of Indian scripture rather than physical observation and the logical assemblage of such data. What we get is a series of telling observations that conform to the physical model that I have previously described. Prithvi largely presents the observations and accepts them while translating into modern language so it becomes properly accessible. This is a huge help.

Although he reports on four flooding events of which the last three were significantly weaker than the first, the first is clearly the main event. We are able to dispose of the last three events as major melt water releases. Geologists already know that massive amounts of fresh water was impounded by the highlands surrounding Hudson Bay and that this was blocked by a remaining Northern Ice Barrier or ice flow filling Hudson Strait that required much longer to be reduced. This melt water was sufficient to permit outflows into the Mississippi and into the Columbia Valley through explosive floods in the scab lands. Later, the St. Lawrence valley was also a major release point. That still left a lot of water contained by the basin. It is not hard to visualize a first release that flowed south, a second release that perhaps released the main mass of water from the Bay, the strait then resealing and a partial refilling setting up the last release.

That lets us return to the main event. Now new readers will have a problem swallowing what I am about to discuss, so in fairness please read my long chapter on the Pleistocene Nonconformity (Viewzone.com for a complete article in one place) in which I resolve the difficulties. This has led since to additional observations and fresh inferences that are also compelling. It is now rather clear that this was a man made event aimed at ending the Ice Age. In short we are well down the road in developing a full and creditable understanding of the underlying events.

The Indian sub continent sat close to the travel arc of the crustal shift. That meant, unlike Africa, that it absorbed the maximum distortion during the shift itself. It also received the maximum exposure to inundation on its coasts. More importantly, the Punjab sat on the Equator while the remaining land was south through twenty some degrees.

Fairly obviously, a thirty degree shift north would impose compression on the northern most lands into Tibet while been fairly neutral for the southern lands that rode from one side of the equator to the other. However, further south in what is the Indian Ocean, stretching effects would have been observed as lands and sea bottom approached the equator.

Coincidentally, we have two major compression arcs on Earth both in the right place to absorb unusual compression. These are the Andean Mountain Arc and the Himalayan Mountain arc. It is reasonable to think that these raw structures have been around for a long time and simply represented a convenient release point when the insult of the crustal shift hit.

Those are the visible consequences. On the other side of the equator we want to see subsidence events. We certainly have that with the Gulf of Mexico and environs, while whatever we may have in the Indian Ocean is as yet not understood. The question then is does the cultural record give us a hand? Obviously, a stretching event should see lands subside under the ocean and mountains in particular to behave strangely while sinking.

We will now return to the cultural record prepared by Prithvi.


‘Be the legend as it may and be the beliefs as they are, I think that this tale is talking about land mass submergence to the south of India. There must have existed a landmass to the south of Kerala that was probably ruled by a righteous and well-loved king called Bali. And in the colossal catastrophe of 9500 BC, this landmass got submerged into the ocean. The submergence of the landmass has been woven into the allegory and legend of the locals, which survive to this day. The people still remember it fondly as a lost paradise; they still reminisce about their king, and the festival of Onam is still celebrated with great festive fervor in remembrance of the lost paradise, with a probable philosophical’

And we also have:

‘Can you observe something here? A huge mountain is jutting out of the ocean at a point that is visible to the Indians. This can only be to the south of India, most probably in the Indian Ocean. And the mountain has collapsed into the ocean! You can notice that each and every legend of Vaishnavite thought enumerated in this chapter is talking about a colossal destruction that has taken place at some point of time in Indian history, all over India, especially to the south of India in the oceans. Huge mountains jutting out of the oceans to the south of India seem to have simply tilted to one side and disappeared from sight, probably creating huge and monstrous disturbances in the oceanic waters, the effect of which must have in turn been felt on the humans in the surrounding lands deep inside.’

And much other also describing flying mountains and the like, but mostly reflecting relative land movement and how it might have been seen to an observer on a high peak looking out over the ocean and seeing mountains shifting position while surrounded by clouds and mist.

Mountains sinking and moving along faults are plausible subsidence events. Volcanic stacks collapsing along such movements are also plausible. The real surprise to me is that the whole process appears to have been fairly gently from a physical viewpoint and possibly lasted for a longer time period that imagined. In fact it suggests that the movement velocity, once initiated approached around twenty mile per hour and was halted by the developing compression caused by the changing curvature. Therefore it is quite reasonable to presume that the whole event lasted several days at the least.

Of course, once it came to a stop, however quickly, the mass of the ocean would have invaded the lands very directly in a massive tsunami overtopping ordinary hills near the coast. That was certainly the flood of floods.

My point in all this is that the reported observations conform to the physical model that I and others have proposed and suggest many other prospective targets. There are prospectively a number of collapsed volcanoes in the Indian Ocean. There is also a Mount Meru that was a center of civilization whose existence has been attested by cultural sources around the world. This was part of a larger land mass that also subsided and collapsed. These are all pretty specific claims that should respond to exploration in the Indian Ocean.

These structures will have subsided both geologically and also by the succeeding sea rise and could be far deeper than normally anticipated.

The important news is that the cultural information is conforming smoothly to the physical data we have brought to bear and is not presenting us with a major conflict. It does not prove but it certainly does not disprove and both methods are now supporting each other’s position

The good news is that Prithvi chose to accept the observations reported without trying to modify them by changing them to fit his own model. This is way too easy to do and we are all guilty of it. Right now, we can say that this new data does fit comfortably even though details will confuse.

By knowing that we are dealing with several days of travel for the crust, the implied violence is minimized, and survivability is hugely enhanced. One did have time to stagger over shaking ground to high ground and wait it all out. Mountains did have time to be reduced in height substantially as reported, and movements along faults had days to work out. Mountains could travel miles.

Like others, I assumed these Indian scriptures were fairly recent. The reports on observations related to the four separate floods make this source at least ten centuries old with good continuity ever since. The other floods impacted coastal cities but had little impact inland. This was hardly true of the first event. Thus it is plausible for scriptures to be preserved.

Polar Bears and 2012

I find it very hard to get too exercised over the fate of the polar bears when by all calculations; their populations are at a peak. The only place they are under pressure, and quite frankly, it is pressure to go back further north where the season is clearly longer, is the bottom of Hudson Bay. If they simply developed a habit of migrating north in the spring they would be in great shape.

If anything, an expansion of their food stocks has likely expanded the population and as the ice disappears further, I expect that seal stocks will increase further supporting more bears.

There is presently conversation saying that the areal extent of this summer’s sea ice will not approach that of 2007. True so far as that goes. The wind has not returned and the ice pack is not concentrating. The ice itself is continuing to get thinner and thinner with each passing year. The downward collapse spiral is well entrenched and becoming more obvious. My prediction in 2007 for clear seas of sorts for 2012 is looking better every month.

It may well take 2007 type winds to actually clear these seas in 2012 or sooner. I think now that some new winter ice may last about two years as it rotates through the Arctic Gyre. In the meantime, three year and older is essentially getting eaten up if much is now left at all. In fact, that is perhaps the important question that needs to be asked. NASA has an expedition out there this summer and I am quite sure they are trying to map the real present extent of multi year ice.

If most multi year ice disappears by 2012, then sea ice coverage will consist of fairly thin one and two year ice that will be vulnerable to any decent wind system, even though it may still provide a sea ice cover as erratic as that presently in the Bay. The chances are that this can still provide huge tracts of open water in late August in most years throughout the high Arctic.

Thin ice for arctic beasts

Last Updated: July 23. 2009 3:04PM UAE / July 23. 2009 11:04AM GMT

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090725/MAGAZINE/707249922/-1/NEWS

The world’s largest land-based hunters, polar bears stand on the edge of rapid decline, unable to adapt quickly to a shrinking habitat as Arctic sea ice melts. Last year the US government added the animal to its threatened species list, but Tim Skelton examines whether it’s too little too late.

Images of starving polar bears are a poignant symbol of the state of our planet. When, in May 2008, the US government added the animal to its threatened species list, it became the first large mammal recognised as being in decline as a result of global warming. Polar bears have a major problem. Their habitat is changing fast, and it’s threatening their survival. Moreover, it won’t just be the bears that are affected. As the Arctic region’s top predator, their disappearance would have an impact on the entire food chain.

The world’s largest land-based hunters, adult male bears can weigh 750kg. They are perfectly adapted to cold climates, with fur designed to trap heat, and furry feet giving good grip on ice. They spend winters on the Arctic sea ice, and are expert seal hunters. But summers are a different story. When the ice melts they spend their time on land fasting, shedding a kilogram a day.This unusual fast/feast cycle worked well until global warming upset the balance. In summer 2007, satellite images revealed that Arctic sea ice retreated to a record level many climatologists had predicted would not happen until 2050. A US Geological Survey report concluded that two-thirds of the polar bear’s habitat could disappear by 2050. And some experts believe sea ice may have passed a point of no return, and may disappear entirely during the summer within 25 years.

Researchers from NASA and the Canadian Wildlife Service have also published a study on the extent of sea ice since 1978. Focussing on Canada’s western Hudson Bay region, they found the ice there was breaking up earlier and earlier, shortening the polar bears’ hunting season by three weeks. “If they feed for a shorter time, they’re going to accumulate less fat,” said Ian Stirling, a polar bear expert with the Canadian Wildlife Service, and co-author of the study. “At the same time, they’re going to be on land and fasting for longer.”

The bears have few food options on land, and must scavenge for whatever they can find. “There are a few sources of nutrition, but not enough to sustain the population,” Stirling said. The lack of food has even forced some animals to resort to cannibalism.Another effect of diminishing ice is that bears must swim longer distances across open water, further depleting their energy. This has led to an increase in cases of drowning. Moreover, as females become thinner, their reproductive rates drop and the survival chances of their cubs declines. The average weight of female bears dropped from 290kg in 1980 to 230kg in 2004.

The global population of polar bears has actually doubled since 40 years ago. Widespread hunting had driven numbers to a low of 12,000 in the 1960s, and a rebound occurred when strict controls were introduced. Today the global population is thought to be 20,000 to 25,000.But this apparently good news is hugely misleading. Virtually all experts agree a time bomb is ticking, and a rapid decline is imminent. With the Arctic warming faster than anywhere else on the planet, the bear’s natural habitat is changing too quickly for them to adapt.

Significant falls in local populations have already been observed. Numbers in the western Hudson Bay region declined from 1,200 in 1987 to 950 in 2004, a 22% drop. Unfortunately, because hungry bears congregate around human settlements in the hope of scavenging for food, native Inuit hunters actually see more bears than they used to. Some treat this as evidence the population is growing.Overall, the US Geological Survey predicts two-thirds of the world’s polar bear population will disappear by 2050, vanishing from all but their most northerly ranges. By 2080, there may only be a few remaining. The US government’s decision to list the bear as “threatened” is a step in the right direction. But it may be too late.

The future doesn’t look bright. But the polar bears’ one remaining trump card may well be their appearance. Despite their ferocious nature, we perceive them as “cute”. When we see them on TV, we sit up and take notice. So with documentary films such as Earth bringing the animal’s suffering right into our living rooms, their plight has become impossible to ignore. For thousands of years, polar bears have been an integral part of the Arctic. If they are going to be around for another thousand, it’s time to act now.

Laurentide Collapse

I am posting this news story because it establishes a couple of dates rather more closely than previously. I think readers could read my postings back in July of last year to understand my ideas on the Pleistocene nonconformity. This has also been published in Viewzone (Google it).

The reduction of the Laurentide ice sheet was the final act in the total collapse of the Northern Ice Cap. The first act was the swift collapse of the Scandinavian sheet. What this makes very clear is that the final collapse was an escapement of a huge amount of pent up lake water a mere 8200 years ago.

The drop in global temperatures may have lasted a couple of hundred years, but the reduction of the balance of the ice would be then steady and uneventful. This means that the global climate finally stabilized only 7800 years ago. This all coincides with the rise of agricultural man in the Northern Hemisphere. Mind you conditions had been improving during the previous 5000 years as the climate regime of the Holocene established itself.

This also means that the sea would have swiftly risen a total of 45 feet, almost certainly driving out coastal populations from fertile deltas in particular. This is keeping in mind that the loss of the Northern Ice Cap over the past 5,000 years had driven all populations off the continental shelf itself. We know that the total rise in sea levels was around 300 feet.

I find this late date for the collapse of the Laurentide to be intriguing. The actual climate became warm through to about 3,000 years ago ending with the demise of the Bronze Age.

In any event the apparent settling of the temperate zones appears to have happened hot on the heels of any climatic improvement. It is as if we were ready and waiting to go. Cattle culture in particular was established in England as early as 9,000 years ago. Obviously the Gulf Stream was hard at work.

I cannot emphasize strongly enough how utterly recent the rise of man in the temperate climes is. In the meantime, the possible antiquity of man in the tropics is not even been truly investigated if it can be. Did some form of agricultural man arise, say thirty thousand years ago? The sea has covered the traces of maritime man in those same waters.

How it happened: The catastrophic flood that cooled the Earth

PARIS (AFP) — Canadian geologists say they can shed light on how a vast lake, trapped under the ice sheet that once smothered much of North America, drained into the sea, an event that cooled Earth's climate for hundreds of years.

During the last ice age, the Laurentide Ice Sheet once covered most of Canada and parts of the northern United States with a frozen crust that in some places was three kilometres (two miles) thick.

As the temperature gradually rose some 10,000 years ago, the ice receded, gouging out the hollows that would be called the Great Lakes.

Beneath the ice's thinning surface, an extraordinary mass of water built up -- the glacial lake Agassiz-Ojibway, a body so vast that it covered parts of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, North Dakota, Ontario and Minnesota.

And then, around 8,200 years ago, Agassiz-Ojibway massively drained, sending a flow of water into the Hudson Strait and into the Labrador Sea that was 15 times greater than the present discharge of the Amazon River.

By some estimates, sea levels rose 14 metres (45 feet) as a result.

How the great flood was unleashed has been a matter of debate.

Some experts suggest an ice dam was smashed down, or the gushing water spewed out over the top of the icy lid.

Quebec researchers Patrick Lajeunesse and Guillaume Saint-Onge believe, though, that the outburst happened under the ice sheet, rather than above it or through it.

In a study appearing on Sunday in the journal Nature Geoscience, the pair describe how they criss-crossed Hudson Bay on a research vessel, using sonar to scan more than 10,500 kilometres (6,000 miles) to get a picture of the bay floor.

In the south of the bay, they found lines of deep waves in the sandy bed, stretching more than 900 kilometres (562 miles) in length and some 1.7 metres (5.5 feet) deep.

These are signs that the bay's floor, protected by the mighty lid of ice, was swept by a mighty current many years ago but has been still ever since, they say.

In the west of the bay, they found curious marks in the shape of parabolas twisting around to the northeast.

The arcs were chiselled as much as three metres (10 feet) into the sea bed and found at depths of between 80 and 205 metres (260 and 666 feet).

The duo believe that this part of the bay had icebergs that were swept by the massive current.

The bergs' jagged tips were trapped in the sea bed and acted like a pivot. As the icebergs swung around, other protruding tips ripped arc-like tracks on the bay floor.

Also presented as evidence are deep submarine channels and deposits of red sediment that stretch from land west of Hudson Bay right across the northwestern floor of the bay itself -- both point to a current that swept all before it.

"Laurentide ice was lifted buoyantly, enabling the flood to traverse southern Hudson Bay under the ice sheet," the study suggests.

Previous work suggests the flood was so huge that it affected climate around the world.

The influx of freshwater into the North Atlantic reduced ocean salinity so much that this braked the transport of heat flowing from the tropics to temperate regions.

Temperatures dropped by more than three degrees Celsius (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) in Western Europe for 200-400 years -- a mini-Ice Age in itself.

Pleistocene Nonconformity - 4 - Making it happen

I have one additional comment since I wrote this and that is that the idea of a crustal imbalance generated by the ice cap build up merits far more attention than it has in the past in light of the apparent readiness of the crust to move at all.

Catastrophic enablement

There has been significant speculation regarding the possibility that the earth’s crust itself shifted with the axial tilt and its rotational speed also changing slightly and that this acted as the trigger for the Pleistocene nonconformity. This view was first voiced by Hapgood and more recently carefully documented and supported by Rand Flem-Ath and Colin Wilson in their book Atlantis Blueprint. They map out the substantial cultural support and some of the limited physical evidence such as exists.

What makes this proposition so enticing is that it would nicely resolve a number of troubling issues.

So the first issue we have to deal with is how? The suggestions put forth to date have been specious at best, generally contravening the laws of physics. There is only one good choice that is a massive impulse on the globe from a large incoming mass. Can we make such a model work?

The primary issue we must first overcome is the problem of surface energy release. Obviously, an asteroid that releases all its energy on the surface of the earth will extinguish life long before it imparts enough energy to affect global dynamics. The Cretaceous extinction centered on Yucatan demonstrates this rather vividly. The asteroid involved had an estimated diameter of 20km, a velocity of 10kps and penetrated 30km into the crust. Most of the impact energy was thrown back into the atmosphere.

If however the globe is struck at a high speed by an iron nickel asteroid whose density averages in excess of 5.0 grams/cc, while traveling tangentially to some sub radius of the core we get a different effect. Effective sizes can run from objects with radii of between 5 km to objects with radii of a hundred km. If the object is part of the solar system then the expected impact velocities are not less than 10 kps if originating from the asteroid belt and 30 plus kps if from the Kuiper Belt. However, if the object is not originally part of the solar system the velocity will likely be several times higher. In that case its arrival would also have been from a direction other than the rotational plane of the elliptic. Since the earth is clipping along at about 30 kps and an incoming dense asteroid could be traveling as fast as 70 kps, the combined event velocity could hit 100 kps.

This means an asteroid the same size and density as the Yucatan event would impact with one hundred times the energy as the original. This would probably penetrate the crust. If the density is increased two fold, crustal penetration is certain. Since it would arrive at an angle the penetration distance would be somewhat larger. At this velocity, the atmosphere would be crossed in a second and the crust itself in several minutes as extreme deceleration took place. Critically, the wound left behind would quickly collapse sealing off any rebound energy and limiting direct environmental destruction of the scope experienced at Yucatan.

The asteroid, because of density and speed punches through the crust, which minimizes the extent of horizontal shock. Virtually all its kinetic energy is then released into the core. The observation that a high-speed bullet will leave a small entry hole in the human skull is an appropriate metaphor.

The effect of this impact is to initially rotationally accelerate the core representing perhaps 99% of the earth’s mass in a minute manner. This immediately results in the earth’s crust been temporarily disconnected or at least accelerated away from the core along the crustal plate slip plane. The initial shock of this separation would be felt globally, but been centered deeply in elastic materials it would be cushioned. There would develop a great deal of vertical movement, and one could expect massive new faulting and reopening of old faults. All the generated heat would be initially contained within the core, including that generated by movement friction between the two layers.

Technically, the separation of the core and crust would have occurred on the internal surface of least frictional resistance. Although we assume that this separation was abrupt, this is not absolutely necessary. A short period of elastic stretching could have preceded separation possibly inducing a semi liquid zone because of temperature rise. Also the incoming mass does not need to cross this boundary. It is only necessary for the full energy release to be deep enough to prevent blowback and much orthogonal energy release on the horizontal plane while allowing the compression pulse to continue in same direction. If we assume liquidfication occurred within the boundaries of the pulse, then the energy could have substantially caused additional liquidfication of the movement surface, particularly if that surface is coincident with one of the major density change horizons where orthogonal energy displacement could be forced. In any event, this would all take place deep below the hundred-mile thick and brittle crustal zone. Regrettably, we have little meaningful understanding of the chemical makeup of this environment, let alone its physical behavior.

Fortunately this style of impact event is likely to be generally survivable, since the energy rapidly absorbed by the core can now be released partially back to the crust in the form of slow motion braking energy. All the original energy imparted by the impact is ultimately translated into heat and a modest change in rotational velocity.

The effect on the core by the crust as the two parts try to come back together would then be felt as a steady movement of the crust for a sustained period of time of at least a month or two. The legend of the crust decelerating to a stop and then reaccelerating to achieve a different rotational speed could have happened if the core first flopped over on its poles. The accelerations necessary for the crust to do this in the time frame suggested is impossible to survive. This does not mean however that the process could not have occurred over a much greater and much more likely time span of say two to three months. The lonely legend that we have remembers a reversal rather than precise details, and in any event, is not broadly supported.

The initial surface energy release from possible hundred mile wide penetration of the crust would still be massive, hurling tsunamis in all directions and sending a shock wave in the atmosphere many times around the globe. It almost certainly must have happened in the ocean were the crust is thinnest and the evidence could be buried.

The stressing of the crust would also have probably caused a strong jump in volcanic activity, but we should keep in mind that this activity is more a function of the developing chemistry and heat flow of local volcanoes whose roots are contained within the crust. The heat generated by the event was substantially below these local surfacing hot spots. In fact it is likely that the bulk of the generated heat could well be still down there since heat loss through the crust is extremely slow. One of the difficulties with postulating a heat pump model as the motive power behind plate tectonics is the sheer glacial slowness of it all and the minimal heat release, even along the mid Atlantic ridge.

It would take a long time for the entry hole to be filled by magmas. During this phase the ocean would pour into the hole and be converted into steam with some ash produced by the cubic mile. We would expect months of torrential rain from the steam generated by the ocean pouring into this hole. I observe that the chemical composition of the ash will be rather different from normal volcanic ash since it is partially derived from deep non-crustal rocks. Also, this deeper rock would not necessarily be water saturated, sharply lowering the potential for ash production.

If Iceland were not rather convincingly linked to the development of the mid-Atlantic ridge, I would pick it as our most likely touchdown point. I would even be tempted to try to link the loess deposits of Europe to this event. It is still suspicious enough to justify a careful reassessment. More likely though any such hole is on the ocean bed and is filled with ash and magma making it hard to spot.

I am been too gentle. Geological interpretation is a terribly inexact science. The first accepted efforts in this field came out of the study of European geology. There exists a huge body of relatively unchallenged interpretations that call out for a major effort to reconfirm in the light of modern knowledge and technique.

Having had the pleasure of dealing with geological information for many years, I have learned to be skeptical and to also appreciate how little hard data any given set of eyes will ever see in a lifetime when compared to the total available. This particularly plays real havoc with mapping where continuity is assumed between data points sometimes miles apart. The book has yet to be written describing high-resolution Pleistocene geological depositions for any continent and is in fact still premature.

Besides all this, the possible movement of the crust and its realignment is the real story. The effects on the coast in most parts of the globe would have been devastating with the ocean effectively coming on land and racing hundreds of miles inland. Yet other parts will have been relatively unscathed.

We cannot say a great deal about the dynamics of this purported event. Calculation may give us bounds and perhaps allow us to estimate the level of disturbance. This would still be a unique event in the earth’s history. We can say a lot about how it ended since we live with the end result. The crust itself ended up with the former poles tilted approximately thirty degrees from the new poles on a longitude running through the center of Hudson’s Bay.

There are also additional cultural markers that are global in extent strongly indicating that this was the case. They are argued extensively in Rand flem-Ath and Colin Wilson’s book Atlantis Blueprint previously mentioned. I do not find these markers necessary to the case at hand but they certainly are curious targets amenable to extensive archeological research. If these markers could be proven directly linked to the eras implied, then we can be confident that greater human remnants survived the event sufficient to generate the cohesiveness necessary to leave a record for us to interpret.

However this all happened, the human cost was catastrophic. If it was slow, then the survivors were those who were forced into the wilderness out of their ancestral homes. If quick, one morning an entire civilization of probably millions was extinguished. The only survivors were those at sea and along the axis of movement, only those in the high country. Of course Africa survived hugely. The simple fact that much of Asia was possibly repopulated from founder populations centered on the Caucasus and the Altais speaks to the abrupt elimination of all lowland peoples. This would simply not be possible otherwise since the natural populating process is the other way around. The better we prove a secondary genesis out of central Asia the better we prove the extent of the disaster.